Dorado by Gretsch - Made in Japan

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This was sent to me by my drum nerd buddy Jay in Knoxville TN. He is the administrator of the Facebook group "Knoxville Drummers Union". He goes by the code name Jay Options over there. I think he is hiding from someone. You have to know the secret password to join that group and they are a shifty bunch :-) . Dorado Drums were added to the Gretsch Dorado catalog in 1973. They were cheap Japanese stencil sets; imports and didn't hang around too long. That's about all I know about them. I would put that particular set of Jay's in the $200 category just because they are in good shape. If the floor tom and snare drum were there they might be worth $300 to $350  -  George Lawrence

Here is a quote from author Mike Jones about Dorado guitars. Some of this may be applicable to Dorado Drums.

" I love the Dorado myself and have the same model 12 string as you. I also have 2- Model 5985 solid-body electrics. They are extremely well made and very playable. I am including information about them in a chapter of my book "Gretsch's Lost Weekend; The Guitars of Booneville and The Hagner Musical Instrument Company, 1970-1981" I am not going to be devoting much to the acoustic models but here's what I can tell you.

The Dorado guitars were made by Matsumoko of Japan between 1971 and 1973. The most intersting thing is, other than minor cosmetic differences, Matsumoko made the exact same guitar for Epiphone, Aria, Conrad, Granada and Lyle, though less so, their acoustic guitars. The ones that were marketed by the other companies were manufactured between 1970 and 1976. The Headstock design seem to be the only real variable on all of the models. As to why they were distributed by Gretsch, there was a long standing rumor that the Dorado was imported by Gretsch/Baldwin to make up for the lack of inventory after the Booneville factory fire in January 1973 destroyed the Gretsch production facility. While a plausable theory, It doesn't work with the time line. It appears to be more of a deal worked out by Fred Gretsch (still on the Gretsch/Baldwin Board of Directors) and Bill Hagner to work with Japanese suppliers. Gene Haugh told me that the decision to import was made in the spring of 1972 by Baldwin and Fred Gretsch. The first catalogs with Gretsch's name appeared in the fall of the same year and offered only acoustic models. In the 1973 catalog they offered an electric 6 string solid-body as well as a solid-body 4 string bass. Your 12 string model was one of two 12 string models offered in the 1973 catalog. Interstingly they also offered drums that year. A little known fact that you might enjoy. Gene told me that Fred brought a Dorado acoustic to Booneville one day in early 1972. According to Gene, Fred had put some masking tape over the logo, came into Gene's office and asked him to try it out. Gene played around with it for a few minutes then Fred asked him how he thought it played and what he thought it was. Gene said it played great and thought it was a Gibson. Fred peeled the tape off to expose the Dorado logo and said "That's what I thought too. Were gonna start distributing these." Gene told me he didn't care much for the electric solid body model's finish but the acoustics were as good as anything anyone was making during those days. Dorado had 3 logos. Plain Gold screen in fat block letters, Gold silk screen normal block letters in 1971-72 and in 1973 they introduced a Stylish in-laid mother of pearl logo. Yours is a 1973. I'll see if I can find some acoustic pics of the Aria, Epiphone, Conrad, Lyle acoustics so you can see they are all the same. For now, here's how the Dorado solid-body electric compares with all the other Matsumoko solid-body electric guitars. I hope this helps.

Mike Jones

FROM IRELAND- A HOLY GRAIL! 1924 4X15 LUDWIG BRASS CONCERT DANCE MODEL SNARE DRUM

 

originally published August 2014

When I was living and playing in Santa Barbara, Ca.in the early 80s, I borrowed a snare drum from a friend, Brad Wisham, whose nickname is “Squid”. It was a 1920s Ludwig chrome over brass 4 x 15 Theatre model and it was one of the best sounding snare drums I have ever played and heard.

I used it on several recordings and a bunch of gigs and I really hated to have to return it to Brad. I searched for one for thirty years and I came upon a few that were either in bad shape or just did not have the sound of that particular drum. In 2010 a guy walked into my drum shop in Akron Ohio with one of them, an eight lug model, that he said he had been using as a door stop (sacrilege!). I ended up trading him a new Ludwig wood drum for it. After fixing it up and putting decent heads and snares on it, Eureka! It sounded just like Brad’s. Brad’s drum had a certain low end sound that I had never heard any other drum produce, and it was just a rich and very responsive brass drum at any tuning.  I have used mine extensively on recordings. It’s all over the new Poco record. It does have a few minor dings and a couple of extra holes and the wrong strainer, but I am always more concerned with the sound than the originality, so I'm not changing a thing. You can’t tell it's not all original through the speakers! ☺

Benny Yurco of Grace Potter and the Nocturnals playing my snare at Dan Auerbach's studio

During the process of selling a multi – sparkle WFL snare to Dan Auerbach of the Black Keys, I took several other drums along just to show him some of my better sounding snares. He really liked this 4 x 15. I told him it wasn’t for sale but I would try to find one for him. This time it didn’t take thirty years. A few weeks later I stumbled across one on the internet that an Irishman named Andy Hilton was selling. I knew from the description that he knew what he had and that it would be as good sounding as mine. He wrote;

“It is with some reluctance that today I offer up my circa 1924 Ludwig Nickel over Brass Concert Dance model snare drum. This is a very rare piece indeed, yet I am happy to say is as usable today as it was eighty eight odd years ago. It features the legendary two piece shell construction, the process renowned the world over for giving the "Black Beauties" of the era their unmistakable sound. Indeed the NOBs and the BBs are effectively the same drum by virtue of this shell configuration. This drum is 15" by 4" and is a ten tube lugged model. All parts are original to the drum other than heads and snare wires/cord. It has been very well treated over its lifetime, there are no defects to the parts, no cracked clips or lugs. The single flange hoops are in round and sit flat. The snare mechanism works perfectly and the drum tunes up fantastically easily. It shows a fair degree of patina, I have only ever given it a light rub down and oiling to the threads and snare mechanism. There is a degree of nickel loss to the shell, lugs and hoops. The photographs should make this evident.

Andy and Gary at the scene of the crime

I would suspect that if you are reading this you will already know what to expect from this drum. Brevity impels me... Probably the finest sounding Orchestral or Studio snare you are ever likely to encounter, from the most articulate buzz to the throatiest crack imaginable, the best snare I have ever played bar none. And then there are the brushes...”

Don’t you just love descriptions like that? I contacted him and we came to an agreement. The shipping was going to be expensive and he was going to have to drive to England to ship it because UPS did not go as far as his town. As luck would have it, my friend Gary Asher, one of the foremost drum collectors of all time!!!!, was traveling in the British Isles and was going to be in Dublin the very next day, which was just a fairly short drive for Andy.

The drum was hungry

Gary agreed to pick up the drum and hand deliver it to me. You have to understand Gary Asher’s exuberant personality to appreciate how he proceeded from that point. I call Gary “the cheerleader of the drum collecting world”. He was manager of Nuncie’s Music in Huntsville Alabama for years where he started collecting and built an amazing museum of vintage drums and sets within the store. After Nuncie’s he started drumschool.com where he teaches many, many students .

The drum was also thirsty

Gary’s collection has taken over his house. You can’t walk ten feet without running into a drum set, most of them rare or special. Gary is one of the most positive, upbeat, gracious and sincere men I’ve ever met. He is also funny and never quits smiling and laughing. He makes many trips around the country often to all the drum shows and to stores and other collectors. I knew Gary was going to take this one all the way to ten. I started receiving email pics from Gary.

I don't know. It just sounded dirty

The first was of him and Andy with the drum when they met in Dublin. Then there came the one with a chicken sandwich sitting on top of the drum with the message “The drum was hungry”.  The next one had a mug of ale on top of the drum with the message “ the drum was thirsty”. Then he sent me one of the drum in the overhead bin of the plane. Then it became an entire travelog of this drum's journey.

The drum made it into the overhead bin

I was out of town when he was going to be in Nashville to deliver the drum so he left it with Gary Forkum at Fork’s Drum Closet and I picked it up a few days later. The drum was in excellent condition. No dents or dings. You could tell that the drum had been well taken care of and regularly cleaned and polished. Some of the brass was showing through the nickel chrome from 90 years of polishing. It looked soulful and sounded great and I was anxious to compare it with my drum.

The drum tried to make a break for Rome

My drum was sitting at Dan Auerbach’s recording studio. I had loaned it to him while he and Pat Carney were cutting Black Keys tracks. Pat played mine and really liked it.  I took the “Irish Drum” over to Dan’s studio and AB’d them.  Bingo again! It had the same throatiness and resonance that mine has.

Ah, yes...the Big Apple

The only difference between the two drums is that Dan’s is the deluxe ten lug model while mine is the standard eight lug.I could tell a slight pitch difference between the ten lug and the eight lug but it had “that” sound;  a big throatiness that is hard to define. I would characterize it as the sound of the Norwegian Army coming over the hill. Don’t ask me where I got that. I don’t even know if Norway has an Army! I haven’t heard back from Dan or Pat since I delivered it but I hope they like it.

My 15 inch Ludwig Cob - the Doorstop

These Ludwig drums have the double flanged bearing edges that are welded back to the shell and a very deep crimped snare bed. The 14” models don’t sound like the 15” models for some reason. I speculate that it is just the right combination of tube lugs, the welded edges, the way the snare beds seat the snares, and the dimensions of the drum all working in unison as one vibrating source that makes it sound the particular way it does. Every one who has ever played mine has been very surprised at the greater degree of tone and resonance that this particular drum has compared to other brass drums. Now, I wonder where the next one is?

George Lawrence

Ludwig 4x14 Deluxe, circa 1923

NEW VINTAGE DRUM MUSEUM EXHIBIT

Category: 

George Lawrence – Life’s Little Drumming Lessons

Published on Tuesday, 14 August 2012 21:49

Written by George Lawrence

1923 Ludwig Deluxe 4x 14

1923 Ludwig 4x14 Deluxe

John Pezzano has graciously presented the first vintage drum to the NSMD Vintage Drum Museum. It is on indefinite loan from the Pezzano family. The Pezzanos lent this drum before to original NSMD publisher John Aldridge and it was displayed in his office museum at Sound Check rehearsal studios until 2002.

John wrote an article about it in NSMD. Here is his description of the drum:

“Ludwig 4x14 Deluxe, Circa 1923

Simple Scroll Engraving pattern

Copper plated, simulated gold finished hardware

Standard (#338) Strainer

Calfskin Drumheads

This Ludwig DeLuxe is a very clean example of its kind, in very good condition. It is especially noteworthy that the drum is still set up in a historically correct manner, having not been changed from the typical configuration of calf heads and strung snares which were the standard throughout the 1920s. Having been used by the original owner and put into storage within 10 years of its manufacture, the drum is overall in very good condition. All tube lugs, collar hooks, tension rods and washers are intact and complete. There is no external damage other than normal wear. The original Bottom head is intact, but the top head was replaced at some time in the very late 1920s. The shape of the flesh hoop in the top head is square as opposed to the rounded exterior contour of the original bottom head flesh hoop.”

We are very grateful to the Pezzanos for letting us display this piece of drumming history in our museum. The first exhibit of the drum will be at the Nashville Drum Show, September 29 & 30. The Vintage Drum Museum is a non profit organization dedicated to documenting and preserving the history of drums. We are currently looking for a building to house the museum. Please become a patron and donate.